2024-05-01
"I'd like to comment on both the Second Reading of the Draft Law of Georgia On Transparency of Foreign Influence and the events that unfolded yesterday.
I want to reiterate that the Draft Law of Georgia On Transparency focuses solely on requiring NGOs and relevant media outlets to submit financial declarations annually. This piece of legislation stands to significantly bolster Georgia's state sovereignty. Furthermore, it will play a crucial role in preventing the kind of violent actions by political minorities that we witnessed yesterday.
Since 2020, NGOs have played an active role in two failed attempts at revolution. It's important to recall that in 2020, NGOs falsified parallel vote count results, manipulated data regarding redundancies in the County Protocols, and spread misinformation about delayed publication of election results by the CEC. This misinformation, funded entirely by foreign sources, laid the groundwork for radical opposition to disrupt Parliament and call for snap elections. Specific media outlets affiliated with the United National Movement (UNM) also conducted campaigns funded by foreign sources, aiming to delegitimize election results. The attempted revolution that began in October 2020 only concluded in October 2021, when the public reaffirmed their trust in the The Georgian Dream party during local government elections.
The second attempt at revolution coincided with the onset of the conflict in Ukraine. In April 2022, representatives from radical parties, NGOs and various media outlets convened in Bakuriani. Together with renowned expert on violent revolutions, Peter Ackerman, they devised a revolutionary plan, slated to unfold after Georgia was unjustly denied candidate status in June. This plan was set into motion when Georgia indeed faced unfair denial of candidate status in June 2022. NGOs revealed their true intentions, stepping onto the political stage to demand the government's resignation and the formation of a technical government. These revolutionary efforts persisted until Georgia finally attained candidate status in December 2023.
Over the span of three years, radical parties, NGOs and certain media outlets remained active within the country. Despite their disruptive presence, Georgia's nominal economy doubled in dollar value from 2021 to 2023. However, without the hindrance of revolutionary efforts, the economy could have expanded by at least an additional 5 billion USD during this period. This would have resulted in an extra billion dollars annually for the state budget, enabling significant expansion of existing state programs and projects. Thus, the opacity surrounding NGOs not only poses political challenges for Georgia but also serves as a substantial impediment to economic development and budgetary growth.
Saying nothing about the opacity surrounding NGOs and relevant media outlets, it allows them to engage in activities fundamentally detrimental to the interests of the Georgian state and society. These include promoting drug use, propagating LGBT agendas, continuously attacking the Orthodox Church, interfering politically with religious matters, attempting to destabilize state institutions, and obstructing the implementation of strategic economic projects, among others.
Preventing a few violent actions by the radical opposition now is preferable to allowing Georgia to spiral into radicalism and perpetual polarization. It's our responsibility as the Government of Georgia to honor the mandate given to us by the voters to govern the country and ensure stability and progress for all.
Furthermore, as previously noted, the radical political minority is currently expending the violent resources they had intended to reserve until the end of October. This effectively thwarts the revolutionary scenario they had prepared for the elections.
Transparency stands as one of the fundamental European values. There's no evidence to suggest that requiring NGOs to publish a declaration once a year contradicts European principles. Nevertheless, certain foreign politicians and officials persist in spreading defamatory and negative statements regarding the draft law on transparency.
Once again, I urge the ambassadors representing respective countries in Georgia: if they have any arguments, let's engage in a public discussion about the Draft Law. We have been and remain prepared to consider reasoned recommendations from our partners at any time. The fact that these countries both interfere directly in Georgia's internal political debates and yet their official representatives decline to participate in public discussions speaks volumes. It suggests they lack substantive arguments against the Draft Law. Such laws apply universally, and if they have concerns, they should actively engage in dialogue. However, we continue to face unwarranted warnings against passing the law. In such circumstances, it is deeply un-European and un-Western for them to persist in spreading slanderous statements and resorting to dry blackmail tactics.
All those who have made defamatory statements must bear responsibility for the violence perpetrated by a radical political minority, as witnessed yesterday. The collective UNM shares full responsibility for their violent actions, with radical parties organizing and leading these actions, along with NGOs and their representatives. We caution everyone to recognize and acknowledge their moral and legal responsibility in these matters.
The responsibility lies with all those entities who, for an entire year, glorified violence and its perpetrators, portraying the members of the violent youth groups within the collective UNM as sincere young individuals. These violent youths are financed by figures like Kezerashvili, Khazaradze, and specific foreign donors. Among them are the UNM, Lelo, and Akhali Youth Organizations, comprising approximately 100 violent youths. Additionally, there are other violent groups such as Talgha [The Wave], Jiutebi [Stubborn], Nabiji [Step], Tbilisi Pride, GenZ, Tsertili [Full stop], Dafioni, Students for the European Future, Movement for Freedom, Sirtzkhvilia [Shame], Franklin Club, and Academy of the Future, which collectively encompass around 200 violent youths loyal to the collective UNM.
I urge all citizens to distance themselves from the violent actions perpetrated by these groups, which are driven solely by narrow-party and anti-state motives.
It's noteworthy that despite millions of dollars poured into these violent gangs over the years, they've only managed to recruit approximately 300 violent youths in the end. I'm confident that this resource will largely be depleted by October as well.
Regarding yesterday's violent action, it was meticulously planned and executed following Ackerman's manual. The rally exhibited its violent and unlawful nature through the picketing of the Parliament of Georgia and the physical violence and insults directed at law-enforcement officers. Participants resorted to throwing various objects, including glass bottles and stones, at the policemen, further emphasizing the unlawful and aggressive nature of the protest.
As a result of the violent actions perpetrated by the political minority, namely the collective UNM, it became necessary to hospitalize 6 policemen yesterday. One of them suffered a fractured eye socket and required emergency surgery.
Following yesterday's violent action, 4 protestors were taken to clinics with minor injuries. They were promptly discharged from the clinics after receiving treatment.
Certainly, witnessing Levan Khabeishvili's injuries was distressing. Also, several regrettable incidents were reported during the dispersal of the gathering. Unfortunately, violence tends to perpetuate more violence. The responsibility for the physical injury of each individual lies with all those who, during this time, have encouraged and condoned violence, including those who promoted violence against law-enforcement officers, approved the violent acts such as Elisashvili's approach, and verbally abused government representatives using extremely derogatory language.
Overall, the radical opposition, along with wealthy entities like NGOs and their media outlets, primarily resort to violence as their weapon of choice. This pattern was evident during the tenure of the collective UNM while in power, and it continues to be their distinguishing characteristic. Everyone is held strictly accountable for violence under the law. Their inability to engage meaningfully with the law on transparency, instead resorting to crude labeling, further underscores their inherently violent nature.
I extend my gratitude to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the policemen who, despite facing large-scale violence and insults, were able to effectively prevent further violence and safeguard public safety to the best of their abilities.
Indeed, it is anticipated that the actions of the radical political minority will once again assume a violent and unlawful character today. This may manifest through attempts to picket state buildings and resorting to violence against police officers, accompanied by insults directed at them.
Georgia upholds democratic values, ensuring the strict protection of the right to peaceful assembly and expression. However, I urge everyone to refrain from engaging in violent and illegal actions. Any perpetrators and violators will be held accountable before the law.
I call on the law-enforcement officers to exercise utmost patience. I understand that it can be challenging to endure violence and abuse without reacting. However, I urge everyone to demonstrate maximum patience when facing any violent or illegal actions by protesters. Any excessive use of force by law-enforcement may be exploited by the radical opposition to deflect attention from their own violent actions.
The imminent adoption of the Law of Georgia on Transparency will establish a robust foundation for fostering long-term peace and tranquility in the country.
The ultimate pacification of the country is essential for bolstering Georgia's democratic system, fostering irreversible economic development, and facilitating Georgia's integration into the European Union."
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Mancho Gabelia from Imedi TV: You've highlighted two parallel developments: legislative proceedings since March 15 and ongoing street demonstrations, both of which show no signs of abating emotionally. As Georgia's Head of Government, how do you foresee alleviating the situation? Additionally, aggressive sentiments and messages, including towards the Ministry of Internal Affairs, were observed yesterday, with mentions of pursuit. Do you have strategies in place for both scenarios, and what is your vision for de-escalating tensions?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: It's quite straightforward: certain groups rely on polarization and radicalism to advance their interests, with the opacity of NGO operations being crucial to their strategy. This lack of transparency allows them to keep Georgia trapped in a cycle of polarization and radicalism. Hence, these groups resist laws promoting transparency, preferring to maintain the country in a state of perpetual turmoil.
Recalling the events at the end of 2020, throughout 2021, 2022, and into 2023, our country faced ongoing attempts at perpetual revolutions. While certain forces may benefit from this turmoil, it's clear that it's detrimental to the interests of Georgia as a state and society as a whole. To secure lasting peace, passing this law is imperative. Undoubtedly, there will be rallies during the Third Hearing and when overcoming any potential veto. However, if we remain resolute in our efforts, the temporary discomfort these actions may cause will pale in comparison to the long-term benefits of mitigating polarization and radicalism. It's a critical national objective. Failing to break free from this cycle of polarization and radicalism will hinder our path to EU membership. We must overcome this polarization and restore calm to ensure long-term peace and stability in the country, paving the way for Georgia's integration into the EU.
Rusudan Dumbadze from TV Pirveli: You started a sentence with the following words "this law solely envisages annual reporting by NGOs, however you went on talking vastly about the revolutionary goals of NGOs. I'm having trouble tracking your line of thought, which appears to be unique to you. Could you clarify whether your intention is to forestall a revolution or simply ensure that NGOs submit annual reports? And if your goal is to prevent a revolution, do you believe that mandating these reports will achieve that? Furthermore, do you think any NGO would openly declare revolution as its objective?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: I will help you understand my line of thought. As for the linkage between transparency and the prevention of a revolution, things are very simple in a real sense here. For instance, if we take the legislation regulating the political parties, they are mandated to submit their declarations to the Anti-Corruption Service not only on an annual basis, but more frequently. Standard of transparency is higher for the political parties, compared to the provisions of this new law in making. Transparency of political parties aims to avoid them being subjected to undue influence and thus have no political system be subject to undue influence. This method is practiced throughout the world. Almost everywhere, political parties and their financial statements are transparent to make sure that they do not get subjected to undue influence and for the state sovereignty to be safeguarded. Here we are dealing with exactly the same concept. If the operation of NGOs is transparent, concrete donors will find it hard to finance such entities with an aim of polarizing them, such as Sirtskhvilia [Shame], Droa [Time Has Come] and so on. For instance, a concrete organization directly subordinated to the EU - EED was financing polarization in this country and it has been funding a political party Droa [Time Has Come] in real terms, which is one of the most polarizing political entities in the country. Besides, it was financed not for implementing projects, but salaries and wages of party activists and office expenses, which is a grave violation of the Constitution of Georgia. In general, it is a grave violation of constitutional principles and what is most important, it was a direct funding of polarization. It was done by the EU. It is unclear to us, why could an EU Fund pay money for polarization, while urging us to depolarize the country at the same time. Such examples are plenty and there are other examples related to Sirtskhvilia [Shame]. There were cases, when a concrete foreign fund or organization was directly funding a campaign to present elections as illegitimate.
Rusudan Dumbadze from TV Pirveli: We have heard about these examples. You are saying that political parties should be free from undue influence. If you like sources of their funding, how can you say that these parties are staging revolution or that they aim to ignite a revolution? If you are indemnifying political parties with the legislation, to make sure that they do not get subjected to undue influence and undue funding, how can you like their sources of funding? You will deem them right if funded with the right methods, but how can they stage a revolution?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: You are taking the wrong direction. When something is not transparent, there are risks. Party funding is transparent for the general public and thus the Georgian society may look into the sources and judge whether they are subjected to influence in this country. Here again, transparency of NGOs is mainly aimed at informing the general public on all these. We are not saying that we will be banning EED from funding the Droa [Time Has Come] or Sirtskhvilia [Shame]. Law does not say this. It says only one thing: society should transparently see all these and when they do, when bad things are financed in this country, e.g. from this concrete fund and in this case from the EED, it will no longer be motivated to finance bad things. This is the main purpose or aim of transparency. It is simply classic, isn't it? It is the aim of this law. I think you have slightly come closer to my line of thought.
Rusudan Dumbadze from TV Pirveli: Last year, when you withdrew this Draft Law, you liked it back then. You like it even now and there were no arguments last year or even now. You and I had a talk several days ago about arguments, but I think today that there is no sense in talking with you about arguments. You do not want to hear any arguments and have no motivation to accept or understand any argument.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Tell me even one argument.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: One of the arguments for me is the people participating in the street rally yesterday. It was a valid argument for you last year, when you withdrew this Draft Law. You said back then that you were preventing the escalation of the situation in the country. I remember it precisely. You were saying that you were withdrawing this Draft Law to avoid escalation and you were taking responsibility. Is it not an escalation of the situation that is happening out in the streets? When we were talking about calming the situation, how do you envision, is it not an escalation?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: You have just confessed that you have no argument.
Rusudan Dumbadze from TV Pirveli: Who else should say or what other threat may fall upon the country? You received a letter from US Senators. What danger should come upon us all to make you withdraw your law, without which you were coping with the untransparent process for the past 12 years? Apparently, you failed to prevent a revolution all this time.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: We failed and that is why there were 2 attempts at a revolution from 2020 through 2023. We failed as there was no Law on Transparency. I am now asking you a simple question. Tell me even one argument, which makes you dislike the law.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: You are attacking the West, when the [EU] integration of the country is the main goal. You incorporated it into the Constitution. There are two statements, one made by high-ranking EU officials and the other one - by you. You assumed political responsibility last year to withdraw the draft law. This year you broke your promise and re-submitted it. Decision-makers are saying that our EU integration will not happen with this legislative initiative. Who shall we believe to be correct?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: I have been asking you for 10 minutes already to give me an argument and your only argument is "read the letter of 14 US Senators" and to hear what someone is saying in the street.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: NGOs will not accept the label of agents, Mister Kobakhidze. But you say it is a good term.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Regarding whether or not this law places enemies and friends on the same level. It is such a shameful, simple speculation that one cannot even imagine. And here is why. For example, there is the Law on Political Parties. According to this law, financing for political parties is banned from other countries, be it Russia, America, Europe, Africa, or Australia, i.e. party financing is prohibited from any country or continent. With the same speculative reasoning, you can try to prove that this law has for years treated enemies and friends equally. But this is the simplest, most shameful speculation. I countered your first argument. There is the Law on Political Parties that treats all countries equally. Consequently, what has been discussed all along, as though this means declaring the EU and America as enemies, is a barefaced lie, because, for years, the Law on Political Parties has been in force in Georgia. And this law says that Europe and America, for example, are banned from financing parties in Georgia. Never mind transparency, they are banned from financing parties altogether. Does this mean that the Law on Political Parties declares America as an enemy? If I am not mistaken the law has been in force since 1997, and no one has changed it so far.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: You are talking about NGOs that work toward a revolution as their goal, and they are financed from the West, so you discern a threat of a revolution, destabilization from the West. And you equally see threats coming from Russia and the West alike. Maybe not even equally.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: This is a speculation. As for threats, wherever they come from with greater force, we work there more actively, and the result is that-for example, you are talking about the country that has occupied 20% of our territory-if pro-Russian parties and electoral subjects collected over 20% of votes in 2013-2014, now they receive 2-3% in our country. You see, this is what it is about. But this does not mean that we should not pursue other directions to protect state sovereignty. When polarizing organizations in this country are financed openly, blatantly, why should not we protect state sovereignty? It should not be protected in this direction? This is why any law should of course treat every country on the same level. Sovereignty must be protected, and this is why it is called an independent country, so that it may protect its interests in every direction. I have answered all your questions, and you cannot even object. You have not brought any argument against this law.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: You say that, with this law, European integration will take place just the way we received the status last year. Is this toward Europe with dignity? With special forces, water cannons, raiding young people. Why did you use disproportional force yesterday, Mister Kobakhidze? The Public Defender said that yesterday, and you cannot accuse him of being a global war party member.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: No, I did not say that. European integration will become faster because, if we avert revolutionary processes even on the level of calculation, this will only accelerate integration, of course. Legislation defines precisely-in line with international standards, by the way-when a gathering becomes unlawful. One of the main criteria is picketing, and here we are talking about picketing the main constitutional body. This is the first solid argument. The gathering became unlawful from the very outset, when the demonstrators moved toward the gate for picketing. This is an international standard and a Georgian law. This is the first argument. Next is violence, insults against law enforcers. This was obviously present, too-numerous facts. There were incidents, unfortunate facts, but overall there is one simple fact showing that the law enforcements acted in a European manner. You see, six police officers and five demonstrators were injured, and this does not ever happen in Europe. As a rule, it is a ratio of 1:10, when violent rallies of this scale are held in European countries. As for hospitalization, six police officers and five demonstrators were hospitalized.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: Mister Kobakhidze, you mention picketing. A crackdown started when MPs left the Parliament. The rally's participants had already moved down to Rustaveli Avenue when water cannons were put to use. Is this proportional force? The Public Defender studied it all down to the minute.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Picketing was the first unlawful act, so the Interior Ministry had every right to clear the area, and, of course, absolutely proportional force was used to clear the place. Next, the Interior Ministry took position right down the road from the gate, and this was the plan I had personally discussed with the Interior Minister. We had a conversation at 11 P.M., and this was our plan. The number of demonstrators was subsiding. The crowd was thinning significantly. And, according to our plan, special forces were to move into the courtyard at midnight. When the demonstrators saw that their numbers were thinning, they did not want this to happen, and at around 11 PM brute violence against police officers started. It was manifested in objects thrown at police, brute insults, not to mention foul language. A sincere young person was detained who just walked up to a police officer and spat in his face. Things like that and crude provocations took place. At about 11 PM, this part of the gathering became especially violent when, as we had agreed with the Interior Minister that, at midnight, the special forces were to leave the perimeter altogether and move into the courtyard. All this could have ended absolutely peacefully. Demonstrators returned repeatedly to continue their aggressive behavior. I am only stating facts here.
We are convinced that demonstrators will switch to violence today, to which end they have mobilized a special violent group of 300, so-called youth organization groups actually financed by Kezerashvili and Khazaradze, and other groups financed from particular sources that will become transparent once the law is adopted. This group of 300, acting in concert, will switch to violence today, too. Imagine the same scenario when there are special forces, and there will be rocks, glass bottles hurled at them, and punches thrown at them. What should the special forces do? You have not brought a single legal argument. And, as for the actions of special forces, you have no arguments here either. As for excesses, there were a few very unfortunate incidents when concrete demonstrators were physically abused. It is very hard to exercise patience for police officers. When a demonstrator walks up to you and spits in your face, it is hard to remain composed. And most kept calm. One in a hundred could not, and this is why there were a few unfortunate incidents. As for Khabeishvili's case, of course, his injuries are serious. Naturally, this case must be studied, and this was the most unfortunate incident from the last night. There were individual incidents, but the violent nature of this gathering is beyond question legally or otherwise, and so is the fact that special forces were forced to take relevant measures. When rocks and glass bottles are hurled at them today, they will be forced to take the same measures, such as water cannons, sprays, and any other measure in line with the principle of proportionality.
Rusudan Dumbadze, TV Pirveli: I have a rhetorical question that I meant to ask since you reintroduced this law, so I might as well ask now. Mister Kobakhidze, are you already preparing to cede power, or you do not know yet what Bidzina Ivanishvili thinks about it?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: What makes you think we are [ceding power]? Power is not an important factor at all. What matters is preventing agents from returning to power. The country must be governed by a government elected by the people, not agents imposed on them. Thus, everything must be done to exclude even a theoretical, not to mention practical, chance for agents in this country, and this is the purpose this law serves. We are in no danger at the ballot box. The most recent survey showed 61.5% in our support, so we can easily win the elections, but this is not what matters most. We won the 2020 elections, and have been in power since. But there have been two attempts at a revolution over these 3 years. If it were not for this, our economy would have been 5 billion USD richer at least. It is very easy to calculate. When your economy is 5 billion USD richer, you can mobilize an additional billion USD in the budget, which in turn means carrying out far more projects, using this money for a social program, etc. Ultimately, all these attempts to instigate disorder, revolutions, etc. cannot undermine us. You see that we have won eight elections in a row, and we are about to win for the ninth time. But they won't let the country and its economy be, which is why we need to set the stage for the country's further development, and this law on transparency serves this very purpose.
Salome Uertashvili, Rustavi 2: If the situation intensifies further, and the protest grows in scale, should we expect the authorities to put off third reading in order to pacify the situation? You have said repeatedly that the upcoming elections are in a way a referendum. And, if you win, can you have third reading afterward?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: We will have third reading in two weeks. In a month, in four weeks, we will override a veto. Some refer to the Venice Commission, suggesting that we should wait, etc. But the Venice Commission's report will arrive before we override a veto. You must remember what we said last year. It is amazing what I am about to say. We adopted the law in first hearing. Then we said we would send it to the Venice Commission and stop reviewing it altogether until the commission's findings rolled in. We made this promise. Nonetheless, they, local agents and their friends, came out and blatantly told us not to send it to the Venice Commission. Imagine what we are dealing with here. When remembering these things, we get an impression that some people will never let the country be. In 2023, some tried to cause shifts in the country, not to let it rest, to instigate a revolution, and I am not talking about the EU. Unfortunately, the EU at that time was under tremendous pressure. Since the war in Ukraine, it has been easy to pressure the EU for various reasons, and it happened so that, in June 2022, we were denied the candidate status without any explanation. How can anyone explain that? Is there any explanation? There is none, right? You give it to Moldova, a CIS member, and you give it to Ukraine, but you deny it to Georgia. You know what is happening in terms of corruption in Ukraine and Moldova. Let's be frank, both are drowning in corruption. Institutional weakness, judicial problems, etc. And you give the status to these countries, but deny it to Georgia. Back then, the EU was under serious pressure, and we were absolutely unjustly denied the candidate status, which was used for an attempted revolution. Ultimately, we managed to maintain peace, avoid destabilization, and finally received the candidate status. If you are principled in your decision, you will have the same result by maintaining peace and stability, and you will advance further toward European integration. Had we not been principled in our fight at that time, we would not have had peace and stability today, and we would have left behind the EU, just as it is happening to Ukraine. Thus, it is imperative to persevere in defending your national dignity and principles. If we do this, we will have results in every direction, we will have this law and become an EU member earlier than anyone.
Salome Uertashvili, Rustavi 2: So third reading will not be put off?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Third reading will be held in two weeks. In four weeks, we will override a veto. This is standard. Thus, if anyone wants to see the Venice Commission's report, it will be available before we override a veto, and we will see what it reads. Since this is a very simple law, just a few pages with only one thing written in it, namely that declarations must be made public once a year, how can anyone have any legal counterarguments against it? How can anyone say that people cannot have information about NGO financing? How can the EU or the Venice Commission say that a minimal standard of transparency is bad? There is no such argument in nature. Let them wait for the Venice Commission's report and legal argumentation in it. If they find any legal argumentation in the Venice Commission's report, we will all have a look at it.
Salome Uertashvili, Rustavi 2: Are you expecting the situation to escalate given that, every evening, we see demonstrators, young people facing law enforcers, and we even heard a call addressing law enforcers?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Radical groups, opposition, collective UNM have no chance other than trying once again to escalate, radicalize the situation today. But they have no resources to succeed. Such rallies are held in various European countries. Cannot even compare them to what happened yesterday. How can all this, a rally, however violent, held by a political minority, be reason enough for the political majority to reverse its decision? Last year, the situation was different. A significant part of our supporters were concerned over this law, unsure whether it was good or not. This is what happened last year. But this year a vast majority of the public supports the law on transparency. Thus, this year we cannot prioritize the will of a minority over the will of a majority, when this minority is known for a very disturbing past and present.
Gela Bochikashvili, Radio Liberty: You mentioned that law enforcers, in some cases, used violence, as seen in some footage. Based on your information, is the Interior Ministry collaborating with the Special Investigation Service to identify those violent law enforcers? You must have seen the footage with a punch in the face, though it is also noteworthy that all we can see in this footage is the eyes of these law enforcers. Have you had any communication with the Interior Ministry to find a way to identify these particular law enforcers?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: As for cooperation, of course, we are open, and there will be coordination between structures to probe into each issue. Naturally, the position in this regard is clear.
Gela Bochikashvili, Radio Liberty: Is there a chance that the ruling party may be considering last year's scenario when the bill was withdrawn?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Of course, not. This law is so important for cementing state sovereignty that no compromise is acceptable here. Polarization in its dire forms was present in 2004-2012 as well-yes, there was polarization before-but the reason at the time was that the previous authorities, the UNM, unabashedly tortured prisoners. They had more than 15,000 inmates. Absolutely innocent people were locked up, there was total business racketeering, etc. This ultimately defined polarization. Media appropriation: they blatantly raided Imedi TV, and appropriated Rustavi 2 the National Broadcaster earlier, etc. Of course, this created a polarized environment. Next, this criminal political force became an opposition, and this, of course, determined a high level of polarization in the first place and has maintained it since. This so-called polarization grew especially intense, being radicalization in reality, in 2020-2021-2022-2023. Society is tired of all this, of what is going on. Every year, they are trying to instigate a revolution, they come out and say that this country does not deserve anything, including European integration, etc. Society is tired of all this. Of course, one law cannot resolve all problems. But this law is one important step toward braking through this cycle of polarization, i.e. radicalization. This is our national objective after all, and you want it too as Georgian citizens. We cannot remain in this mode forever, when the UNM tries every year, despite election results, to start a revolution and return to power. This vicious cycle must be broken, and this national objective is so important that we absolutely cannot say no to this law.
Gela Bochikashvili, Radio Liberty: You always recall that attempted revolutions took place in Georgia at least twice. Under your leadership at the helm, should we expect any legal moves after the adoption of this law, because toppling a government has its legal qualification and may be treated as a criminal law case. Is there any investigation into this, meaning that an attempted revolution is unlawful? Do the authorities intend to legally assess such cases in any way? Why has not been there any assessment so far? What are your plans in this regard?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Attempts at a revolution do not always mean a crime. For example, we witnessed an open attempt at a revolution in June 2022. When you, disregarding election results, and in defiance of elections, demand that the government should resign, and to form a new government with your participation-meaning that you have not received any mandate at the ballot box, and you are some NGO, but you still want to put together a government-it is a form of revolution that might by punishable by law. An attempted revolution is publishable if it is accompanied by concrete parallel crimes. But when you come out and actually lead the country toward a revolution, but this is not accompanied by concrete parallel crimes, this may not qualify as a crime. In other words, there is a criminal attempt at a revolution, and there may be an attempted revolution that does not qualify as a crime. There were attempts at a revolution in 2020-2021-2022-2023. But, as for assessing a crime, this is not my function. This function falls under the purview of law enforcement bodies, if they see parallel crimes accompanying relevant attempts, in which case this issue may be brought up. Secondly, sometimes repeated attempts may generally become a tool for banning such political parties altogether. You know that this tool is actively used by Ukraine and Moldova, for example. If a particular political party will not let the country be, in theory it may be grounds for banning, though I cannot not discuss this. This is up to the relevant law enforcement bodies.
Gela Bochikashvili, Radio Liberty: But an investigation was conducted in this direction. Has anyone been charged?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: As for the investigation, for example, the infamous CANVAS trainings, the relevant video is clear proof that a revolution was purposefully in the making in this country. As for its criminal aspect, it must be investigated by a concrete law enforcement body. But this does not mean that a revolution was not in the making. The same thing here with foreign money involved and a revolution in the making in broad daylight in this country. But it is up to a law enforcement body, not prime minister, to decide whether or not there were signs of a crime. An investigation is on in this regard, and this process will continue. This is not an easy matter, because this video alone is not enough to determine the presence of a crime. Additional circumstances must be probed into, and this takes time.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: Your speeches show that you are totally disinterested in what the West has to say, what our international partners urge us to do.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: I am very much interested.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: You disregard, for example, EU recommendations, calls from the US, as clearly evidenced by the reintroduction of the Russian law. If our international partners have critical comments on the upcoming elections, if they deny or question the fairness of the elections, what do you intend to do? Will Georgia become another Belarus, Russian Federation? Are you officially ready to resolve every issue with our strategic partners?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: As for the elections, I cannot discuss theoretical issues, but I want to remind you what was happening in 2020. In 2020, we heard very grievous and blatant accusations of electoral fraud hurled against Georgia's authorities. Ambassadors, concrete politicians spoke about it, and these were very crude, grievous accusations in 2020, something grounded in reality in NGOs falsifying the outcomes. The controversial parallel vote tabulation, excesses.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: So the previous elections were not stolen?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Of course, not. The PVT was falsified. Parallel voting tabulation data were falsified with foreign financing, subsequently to serve as an excuse for the collective UNM. When this law is adopted, the public will know whose financing is used to falsify the PVT. All this has been nontransparent so far. We have this information, but I do not want to talk about it. The public will know whose financing is used to falsify parallel tabulation or excess ballot data.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: Concerning the elections, with critical assessments, will you declaredly give up on European integration? Our European future? You are about to adopt a Russian law, and everyone agrees on that. There is no Western country left that has not urged you to withdraw it.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Name an argument. Your colleague could not. You bring one.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: There are many arguments. This law is Russia from top to bottom. Putin's regime adopted an identical law in 2012 to conduct repressions. You are declaring the US, the EU as enemies, and you want to carry out repressions against NGOs. Are our partners being misled? Russia is the only one to like this law, and only Russia praises you. Russia is the only supporter of Georgian Dream.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: I will not answer these speculative statements. None of these is an argument. You know that this law is not Russian. And it simply is a lie when someone says that this law is Russian. It is not just a lie, but a barefaced lie. This is the crudest form of lying. Why is it a barefaced lie? What does the Russian law imply, for example? Besides the submission of declarations, the Russian law allows state control services to inspect any NGO in the course of months. And, in the process of this control, they may give qualification to its operations, and they can ban this NGO altogether, also launching a criminal investigation against both the NGO and its employees. Besides, the Russian law prescribes branding when, not just the organization, but, for example, a person is on TV, it must be displayed onscreen that this particular person is a foreign agent. This is an American standard, so to speak. The Russian law contains 10 points that make it repressive. I have listed these 10 points, they are very crude, and none of them is found in the Georgian law. How can a Georgian law be Russian? Have some common sense. You must have attended school for at least 9 years!
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: So your task is not to suppress freedom of speech and abolish NGOs?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: If we wanted to do that, we would have copied the Russian law. Anyone who has attended school for at least 9 years will agree that, when ten crude repressive points are found in the Russian law, but none of them is found in our law, you cannot call it Russian.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: Mister Kobakhidze, Olaf Scholz has not passed nine grades in school? He stood next to you at the joint briefing and he criticized you. What answer can you give to the Department of State-are they barefaced liars, too? What can you tell international partners, while Russia is the only one-and no one else, including the US-who likes this law. What does it tell us?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Even my younger child, a third-grader, would not addressed me like this. He has enough responsibility and education. As for foreigners lying in relation to this law and stating with no arguments that we absolutely should not dare adopt this law, they are the responsible party, they share the responsibility linking to the violence by the collective UNM. It does not matter who is lying concerning this law, because they all share the responsibility for the violence carried out yesterday by young people financed by the collective UNM, Kezerashvili, Khazaradze, and others. No one likes transparency. No one wants to make their financing transparent. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: Are you ready to give up on cooperation with the EU or terminate this cooperation? Because this is a Russian law.
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: What makes you think that we want it? This law is a mandatory precondition for expediting the relevant process. Even my younger son would not say things like that. It is all about education, intellect, and conscience.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: May I ask you about yesterday's rally? Did you watch the footage of young people, women and children, beaten mercilessly?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: It was a case of breaking up a rally. There were excesses, incidents, but overall it was a case of breaking up a rally in line with European standards. As for excesses and incidents, naturally, every issue will be studied. There were a few unfortunate incidents that will be probed into. As for the gathering and rally in general, it is clearly ascertained that the gathering shortly became unlawful and then violent, creating legitimate grounds for breaking it up. Beyond certain excesses and incidents, overall, the operation was carried out in line with European standards, for which I thanked the Interior Ministry and Police Forces. As for violence, I do not recall you condemn Elisashvili's heroism, condemn violence against colleagues. You have not condemned the violence of Elisashvili and demonstrators, violence against your colleagues. This is so UNM.
Natashka Jakhutashvili, Mtavari TV: Who issued unlawful orders? Do you as prime minister assume the responsibility for what happened yesterday?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Kezerashvili and Dima Chikovani, those financing these violent youth groups, are the key persons behind yesterday's unlawful orders. I assume the responsibility for the fact that, overall, yesterday's operation of breaking up the rally was carried out in line with European standards. As for concrete excesses and incidents, these are individual cases to be studied. But I assume the responsibility for the fact that this concrete operation, beyond incidents, was overall carried out in line with European standards. As for the violence of demonstrators, the leaders of the collective UNM will be held responsible, something that you do not demand because you are not a critical television outlet.
Mariam Chikovani, Palitra News: Georgian Dream's position is known, and you also confirm that you will not withdraw the bill. But, given the turbulent political backdrop in the country, maybe you are considering and there is a chance of a compromised version of this bill, one that may lend greater legitimacy to the bill? For example, it may be put to a vote by the next parliament, and in this case the upcoming elections in 2024 may serve as a kind of plebiscite. And the next question: should this bill be adopted, do you expect sanctions from the West, meaning sanctions against Georgian Dream's leaders?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: Along with attempts at a revolution, there was also blackmail language in use in the past. In 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023, blackmail language was used to communicate with us. The language of blackmail does not work on the Georgian people or this government, because today the country has an independent, sovereign government, and these citizens have accumulated experience, and they have their dignity. Consequently, the language of blackmail does not work on us. As for the enactment of the law, it takes time to adopt a law. Two weeks from now, and then four more weeks, then signing, and then another week. Then it will take three months for the declaration submission period to come. If I am not mistaken, this makes it late September. Basically, there is time. Unless our radical opponents know that they will lose the election for sure, why do they worry so much? They can come to power and amend the law in November. But they know for sure that they have no chance of winning the elections. Is not it all clear and obvious? They are aware of their own rankings, right? In mid-March, we scored 61.5%. What is their score? The cumulative radical opposition's rating is about 25%. Under these circumstances, they have no hope whatsoever of winning the elections. As for turbulence, of course, a political minority can cause no substantial turbulence at all. Thus, I urge everyone to keep calm, accept defeat at the ballot box and the transparency of their friend NGOs, which is a European standard and a European value.
Lika Ruadze, Interpressnews: Mister Kobakhidze, with societal and political polarization in the backdrop, we often hear that there is a threat of civil confrontation. As prime minister, how would you assess these risks, and what does the state do to prevent this?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: All this has been attempted for years by the collective UNM, radical opposition. Every year, they try to instigate a civil confrontation, and they had this scenario prepared for the post-election period. Today, they are forced to waste these violent resources. In addition, lustration is underway, and about 15 violent youth organizations can be deciphered that have been directly trained in committing violence, so their violent methods can be easily deciphered, too. Consequently, overall, very good processes will unfold. The public will see everything; the public sees everything. Overall, their violent resources will be wasted prematurely. This is very important, and for us it a national objective.
Lika Ruadze, Interpressnews: Are you expecting sanctions from the West?
Irakli Kobakhidze, Prime Minister of Georgia: A similar question was asked earlier, and I repeat. It is totally incomprehensible to me. We remember the same type of blackmail from 2021-2022-2023. But they could not blackmail anyone, could they? Consequently, their blackmail is worthless this time, too. This will not work on Georgian society or authorities.
Thank you very much.
Press Service of the Government Administration